Handling Found Wanting

(11-03-2012 10:00pm)PAT Wrote:  Fair point but it's not what you say but how you say it at times.

+1 - and most (including self) are guilty at times, but others far more (too) often.

I love all this negative personal comment.

Take a look at the long list of enhancements people want. Leaving aside the plainly ludicrous ones, most focus on the sat nav/audio/centre console function or performance, the toys. Others are concerned about the effect on someone's buttocks of the seat bolsters. It's clear that these are the areas coming under your collective microscope with barely a comment about how well the car gets you from A to B.

That, for me, is much more important, and just because I have the temerity to question the RRE handling doesn't make my comments patronising, rude or anything else. I am simply interested in other aspects of the car's performance. For me, it's a car, not some sort of recreational play-pen.

ANYWAY... it's clear to me that the current RRE incarnation is best enjoyed away from its handling limits. If you do that, it's a fine car but if LR do not want to be taken to the cleaners by the Porsche Macan, they need to improve this area of the car.

I think there is a fair bit of confusion as to what everyone perceives the car to be and what LR intended it to be.

Some people buy it for the looks, others for the gadgets, prestige, brand loyalty, off road capability etc. Hence no 2 people will have their expectations met in the exact same way.
The most fair view would be to compare what LR intended it to be and then match up with the competitors. Just there is no hatch back size SUV (sports(?) utility vehicle) that also has some off road capabilities. Personally I don't think you can have both a sports car and off road vehicle in one with both qualities being top notch. It will fail at either one end of the spectrum or both. BMW X6, VW Touareg, Porsche Cayenne springs to mind.

Subjectively I think people assume the car to be able to do things based on its looks, which is not fair. Yes the RRE's looks are very pleasing and inviting, but one should do the homework upfront and match the purchase requirements with the published capabilities. And there-in lies my point. JLR did not intend this to be a serious sports car nor an off roader. If you are a boy racer, this is not the car for you. If you a serious off roader, also this is not the car for you. If you are big family, this is not the car for you. If you are a fuel eco warrior, this is not the car for you. If you have an Apple with OS5 on it, not for you either

I do believe (personal opinion) JLR striked a good balance in that it stretches a fair way into sporty as well as off road territory. Whilst it should be technically possible to stiffen the car and handling to an inch of a bobsleigh's comfort, I would hate to drive it off road. This is where after market industry comes in and you can modify it to your hearts content.

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mark_n

Just a CGI as yet, but this looks more promising for your requirements?

Lambo SUV

I think if Mark is concerned about the handling,
Check out this video on YouTube:



I think the Evoque does live up to the concept that LR dreamt of, for being a 'Cross-over.'

(11-03-2012 10:05am)mark_n Wrote:  The real issue is that, for a car labelled "Dynamic", the suspension is not good enough. First, at motorway cruising speeds (and I'll leave you to think where those might be in relation to the speed limit), the car has a tendency to float after responding to undulations in the road, it's as if the suspension is fast to react and slow to settle and, for the first time in a long time, made me feel nauseous. Then, when you press on on a winding country road, the alarming body roll inevitably causes you to back off even if things are fine on the ground.



Roll on the Evoque Sport. If Porsche can do with it with the Cayenne and will do it again with the Macan, so can LR with the Evoque.

You might have misunderstood what you bought. It's labeled as "Dynamic" only to describe a sportier look. There is no mention of it being a 'sport' model. As we all know by now, work is ongoing to build a sportier version of the RRE. Maybe you will be happier with the upcoming sportier RRE which will probably have some enhancements over the standard car.

Anyhow I find it strange that you want what is essentially a 4x4 vehicle to be able to handle like a 911. No matter what it is, I can not seem to find any SUV truly sporty. The Cayenne Turbo brilliant as it is, is still a 2.5 ton car with a very high center of gravity. Technology can make up for some of the shortcomings but it will never be a proper handling sports car.

You want a car that does it all... well that simply isn't possible. There are always compromises to be had. Rock hard suspension on a car meant to be a daily driver and sell in the hundreds of thousands isn't compatible with the purpose of this car. It would not sell as well as it does if it had the upgrades you wished for. That's why there will be a sportier version, to cater to this small but more focused segment of the market.

Having recently driven an Evoque with AD I find the ride and handling very well suited for the purpose of this car. I did not expect 911 ride in it, and certainly would not be using an Evoque to its handling limits. There are cars that are far more rewarding to drive and suited for handling on the limit.

Ideally it seems, you want the Evoque look on a 911 chassis.

And I'm assuming that's what you hope the Porsche Macan will be.

Although from the pictures I've seen so far it looks weird.

An evoque 911 just isn't going to happen. I know you don't mean that literally.. but in all senses.. it doesn't make sense nor seem reasonable.

For what the car is and was intended for. It handles absolutely brilliantly.

(11-03-2012 11:03pm)mark_n Wrote:  I love all this negative personal comment.

Take a look at the long list of enhancements people want. Leaving aside the plainly ludicrous ones, most focus on the sat nav/audio/centre console function or performance, the toys. Others are concerned about the effect on someone's buttocks of the seat bolsters. It's clear that these are the areas coming under your collective microscope with barely a comment about how well the car gets you from A to B.

That, for me, is much more important, and just because I have the temerity to question the RRE handling doesn't make my comments patronising, rude or anything else. I am simply interested in other aspects of the car's performance. For me, it's a car, not some sort of recreational play-pen.

ANYWAY... it's clear to me that the current RRE incarnation is best enjoyed away from its handling limits. If you do that, it's a fine car but if LR do not want to be taken to the cleaners by the Porsche Macan, they need to improve this area of the car.

I believe the answer to this observation is very simple. The reason that people are complaining about the little things and the "toys", is because we are all enjoying the drive of our "car." I test drove mine to the limits for my area and was satisfied.
I would surmise by the list of things that most people here want to change is because, like me, they are very happy with the automobile as a whole and only want to tweak it a little. As apposed to maybe an AWD hydraulic lifting all season tire equipped 911.
As an engineer, you know that you can build anything for yourself. However if you and your group build something in your city for everyone to have an opportunity to own, then there have to be compromises.

An "affordable exotic" is an oxymoron...

Interesting read

This is my first suv and I did lots of research before i made my decision, I have come from a Mazda 5 sport that had really firm suspension (was really not that bad for an Mpv), before that I had a 4 wheel drive Skoda 0ctavia diesel.

For me the Evoque offers so many cars in one complete package, any OEM who has the balls to offer a test drive in all conditions deserves to do good business. ( anybody who gets the chance of a LR experience day will agree)

I have to keep my car for three years for the lease terms and wanted to be confident that it would be good for all of life's and families needs.

I did a LR2 experience day at gaydon two years ago that got me into the amazing capability of the freelander including the banked oval, skid pan, off road in snow, so when I heard there would be a fuel efficient special with a high specification I was sold.

Last summer I had an x3 auto for the weekend, an Audi q5 se, a Skoda superb 4x4. I dismissed the x5 fairly quickly, the Audi was a very nice car, very refined but let it tackle a muddy track or launch my boat on the beach and I am sure it would get stuck. Combine that with then going to work in the same car, on the motorway, in the city and you have it all.

Throw in a really cool retro cabin and your sorted.

For me it ticks all the boxes and is still not that bad on fuel considering its size and footprint. I love the all round capability.

If LR offer a special which I am sure they will ( like the cosworth) this could then cater for the folks who want that extra. I had two fellow US colleagues with me two weeks ago and they were amazed at the handling and the ride comfort.

I am very happy, amazing grip and ride and I think it feels sporty.

I am emphatically not expecting the Evoque to perform like a 911, of coursse not, how could it? However, with 3 model profiles in the range, I think the Dynamic could have been set up to provide more sporting handling. There should be more to choosing between Prestige and Dynamic than different leather vs body kit and fake bonnet vents.

Of course, roll is used as a warning to the over-enthusiastic to back off, there's the feeling of loss of control long before it actually happens and as a safety thing, it might be justifiable. I would willingly sacrifice some ride comfort in return for fast acting suspension and reduced body roll in corners. However, this is my first LR and it might not be the LR way...

If there is an Evoque Sport in the offing, it will be interesting but it has to be more than extreme body kit and more power - it needs a taughter suspension setup (and I suppose in consequence, bigger brakes) to go with it.

(12-03-2012 11:02pm)mark_n Wrote:  I am emphatically not expecting the Evoque to perform like a 911, of coursse not, how could it? However, with 3 model profiles in the range, I think the Dynamic could have been set up to provide more sporting handling. There should be more to choosing between Prestige and Dynamic than different leather vs body kit and fake bonnet vents.

Of course, roll is used as a warning to the over-enthusiastic to back off, there's the feeling of loss of control long before it actually happens and as a safety thing, it might be justifiable. I would willingly sacrifice some ride comfort in return for fast acting suspension and reduced body roll in corners. However, this is my first LR and it might not be the LR way...

If there is an Evoque Sport in the offing, it will be interesting but it has to be more than extreme body kit and more power - it needs a taughter suspension setup (and I suppose in consequence, bigger brakes) to go with it.

And so on a lighter note Mark, I think you may want something different, like a RRE RALLY. Check this out: