Discovery Sport

Hi, Tony, been reading your tale of woe over your Dynamic(sorry been away so catching up). Disgraceful behaviour on LR's part I think. QC is pot luck I think. Tim's first Evoque, a launch car seemed to be better put together than his new one. It's reading these horror stories that put me off buying the Evoque again(I had a pure tech auto). I'm now driving an Audi SQ5 and it's brilliant. The engine is superb and I'm getting much better mpg than the Evoque, while having a huge amount of more power etc(as well superior build quality, better satnav...).
We still have our D4 which is coming up to 5 yrs old and that need replacing. As much as my wife loves the SQ, she still likes 7 seats occasionally for karting kids, inlays etc with us and that's why we're looking at the DS again.
Am trying to get my head around the fact that the DS is a Land Rover, not a premium Range Rover, but when specced up to a level of a dynamic lux Evoque, come in more expensive???
Anyway, digressing. We still love LR products, and would like to keep at least one of our cars as a LR, I just get worried reading about at the rattles etc in the Evoque. The Freelander doesn't have this problem, so hoping the DS follows on from there, not the Evoque

Craig, I think Land Rover has been caught out by its success and are now less worried about churning out substandard cars and are more worried about making more profits than they about trading on the strengths that they have struggled to build up over the last 10-15 years. Land Rover used to be an industry laughing stock, selling 3 models, all of them icons but still in production 20 years longer than they should have been. It took BMW and Ford to start the climb up from what LR used to be in terms of quality. I remember when Ford halted the launch of Defender2 because it couldn't meet Ford's QC just after production started. It took Tata to provide the cash to build what should be class leading quality products. Current management are all business school men, they are not engineers, they will not be interested in quality until suddenly one day nobody will buy their products and then they just won't understand why they cannot sell any vehicles. I still believe Land Rover designs and developes something that no big builder like VW/ Audi or BMW would dare to build, we all know Land Rover can do a lot better quality wise than they have been doing in the last 24-36 months. Many of us have have owned Land Rovers built since 2000 that were brilliantly built but in the headlong rush to keep up with orders, the standards of QC has fallen through the floor. I remember when the forum visited Halewood and were staggered at the number of cars being hauled off the line for small defects, I bet these days there are no longer cars sitting off the side off the line getting remedial treatment/ repairs. Land Rover has outstanding design and engineering qualities, they are making mould breaking SUVs BUT they need to work harder on getting the quality to match their ambitious prices.
I saw a Porsche Macan parked outside the Ramada Hotel in Dubai yesterday and took a look inside. Yes it looks dated and like any other Porsche's interior but you can bet your bottom dollar it all works free of rattles and faultlessly. That means more to customers paying the prices that Land Rover is now charging than how smart the exterior design is or how hitech the toys are, they HAVE work at this price level and LR forgets this at its peril. I for one am disgusted that my £53000 car was delivered 6 months late AND that the option that caused the delay still didn't work when the car was delivered to the dealership from the factory and then less than a week later the car had to go back to a dealer to have the system properly set up by a guy from the factory. Worse two weeks after that I was told that that option was then obsolete.......... And that the new system cannot be retrofitted by a software upgrade! Bluntly I feel is was robbed!

Craig my D4 will be 3 in December, I might look into a private sale. To be fair it wasn't perfect when I bought it, I thought I was getting a better car by trading in my 13 reg Fl2 XS, but the D4 has been a headache with constant niggles. It's warranty is due in March so it's going no matter how painful.

Regarding the DS I'm happy to take the current engine, it's better the devil you know. I know it ain't the most economical engine or the most powerful but it's never let me down in the past (3 Fl2s + 1 Evoque).

Tim, that is all true enough. The question remains for many, should they spend up to £50k on a DS which will no doubt have the same appalling quality as the Evoque when they can buy anyone elses 7 seat people carrier for half that.

I just can't bring myself to buy something else. I've never had an LR that bad that it's put me off, yes their quality at times is well below par. The only duff cars I've had have both been Discos. Maybe that's an omen.

(08-09-2014 09:46am)J77 Wrote:  I just can't bring myself to buy something else. I've never had an LR that bad that it's put me off, yes their quality at times is well below par. The only duff cars I've had have both been Discos. Maybe that's an omen.

I used to have the same view of owning a LR but its going to take a massive jesture and restoration of faith on their part to get me back on side. I am STILL waiting for the dealer to call me back to get this piece of junk looked at again, looks like its going to be another week of plans totally screwed.

Its already travelled more miles to and from the dealer than on our own use.

Yes, I concur with both Tony and J77. I have supported LR since 1996. I waivered before ordering this Evoque but decided that while it was nicely built the Audi SQ5 was dull to look at and duller inside, I don't drive like a rally driver and I do appreciate having a car that has a modicum of off road talent - I haven't yet seen any Audi Q's or BMW X's go anywhere that I have seen Freelander2's and Evoque's going regularly and those are places without tar on the road.
I have today driven mine 40 miles to town and back and I have to admit that there was not a single rattle, but the gearbox soared right up to the rev limiter again after the stop/start had intervened and the traffic lights changed to green, it's almost as if when stop/start activates it thinks "ah at pull away he wants to be in the S setting of the gear selector." Cannot whinge about the fuel consumption either, managed to get the auto average up to 49.8 mpg sat at 45 behind a line of tractors towing beastie trailers to Stirling Mart.

(08-09-2014 10:08am)Tony Wrote:  I used to have the same view of owning a LR but its going to take a massive jesture and restoration of faith on their part to get me back on side. I am STILL waiting for the dealer to call me back to get this piece of junk looked at again, looks like its going to be another week of plans totally screwed.

Its already travelled more miles to and from the dealer than on our own use.

Tony you have very right to be nervous of buying another Land Rover. Most owners go through life without a problem, but when it does go wrong customers seem to be left in limbo.

In all years I've had LR I've never looked at anything else, but this time I had to think twice, the cars are starting to reach a price thats beyond my budget, but the quality doesn't match the price tag.

If Dacia can knock a half descent car surely LR can

J77, what is more disturbing us that Dacia can also turn out a good product for a third of the price of an Evoque or Disco Sport. Over in this part of Stirlingshire We are starting to see a lot more Dacia's than we see Land Rovers. Some of those Dacia's are being driven by former Land Rover owners too...........

(08-09-2014 09:32am)J77 Wrote:  Craig my D4 will be 3 in December, I might look into a private sale. To be fair it wasn't perfect when I bought it, I thought I was getting a better car by trading in my 13 reg Fl2 XS, but the D4 has been a headache with constant niggles. It's warranty is due in March so it's going no matter how painful.

Regarding the DS I'm happy to take the current engine, it's better the devil you know. I know it ain't the most economical engine or the most powerful but it's never let me down in the past (3 Fl2s + 1 Evoque).

Did you watch the youtube clip from What Car? 5 things to know about the discovery sport. At the end they talk about the new engines. I'm assuming they are reading from the press release from LR but if true the new engines are 85kg lighter than the 2.2ltr SD4. That's quite a weight difference and I think will make a bit difference to the driving dynamics.
Think fuel economy plays a lesser role here as the longer you wait, the more you lose on the D4(though depreciation should start to slow), but if you wait 6months from launch and get the DS with the newer engine, you'll just delay the start of the depreciation on the newer car. Hard one as trying to think about it with mine, though my D4 will be 5yrs in November

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(08-09-2014 04:52pm)XFullFatTim Wrote:  J77, what is more disturbing us that Dacia can also turn out a good product for a third of the price of an Evoque or Disco Sport. Over in this part of Stirlingshire We are starting to see a lot more Dacia's than we see Land Rovers. Some of those Dacia's are being driven by former Land Rover owners too...........

Just think, as a story last month, LR profit margin has increased in the last quarter to 20.2% per vehicle, or a profit of £924million on sales of 115,596 cars. So LR making on average £8,000 profit per vehicle sold(and dealers have to make a profit on top of that too). No wonder they're more Dacia around.
Think LR should stop hiking prices or at least put some of that profit margin into Quality Control or improving materials used.

I still want a DS though, even though it'll cost more than my D4 hse I'm waiting for the jag Xe launch later today so I can read up a bit on the new engines and make my decision whether to wait or not