Cracked Panoramic Roof

Well, it seems I've got the same issue with panroof. Though the reason I've got this crack perhaps is different, it is not caused by excessive torsion due to heavy off-roading and is not caused by stone chip. I'm not off-roader for sure except for those piles of snow we had this winter.
Apparently car was delivered in Oct 2011 without roof rails, due to the shortage while in production. Dealer has convinced me to take the car and to visit dealership later in order to install the roof rails once those are delivered separately. So I did it.
However, it seems that during installation roof was damaged with some sort of fitting appliance and, as a result in couple of months the crack became visible from inside. Actual installation was in Dec 2011, so now I have this

I expect quite a discussion with dealer on Monday ...

Looking at the picture the fault line starts under the trim.Who ever installed the roof rails must be at fault.I am sure the dealer will repair it at no cost to you.

Someone at the dealer is going to be in a spot of bother when they get to work tomorrow!

Hope it gets sorted quickly.

Have you noticed any water getting through or is it just a surface crack? (I would assume that the panoramic roofs are laminated)?

This cracked roof issue seems to have moved on from a 'one off' I wonder how many others have failed to people's vehicles not on this forum? I bet LR will keep that a closely guarded secret.

(18-03-2012 07:56pm)ceebee Wrote:  Someone at the dealer is going to be in a spot of bother when they get to work tomorrow!

Hope it gets sorted quickly.

Have you noticed any water getting through or is it just a surface crack? (I would assume that the panoramic roofs are laminated)?

Hope so too. Though I haven't noticed any water getting in (so far), anyway this needs to be thoroughly checked since the fault lines are right at the roof rails padding.

---

(18-03-2012 06:58pm)broady43 Wrote:  Looking at the picture the fault line starts under the trim.Who ever installed the roof rails must be at fault.I am sure the dealer will repair it at no cost to you.

I was quite surprised anyway, such a simple installation procedure caused such issue. Though now have mixed feelings about sun roof design as such. But I'll keep this thread posted once I have any update.

---

(18-03-2012 09:51pm)Straydox Wrote:  This cracked roof issue seems to have moved on from a 'one off' I wonder how many others have failed to people's vehicles not on this forum? I bet LR will keep that a closely guarded secret.

I think so, though have no idea on any numbers, since populating those wildly would probably divert people from buying cars with sun roof option (at least would trigger some more thinking before making any final decision).
I still hope the numbers are low enough.

If the roof rails are correctly installed, they shouldn't put any stress on the glass roof, assuming of course you have not overloaded them. All load is carried by 2 bolts at each corner which I expect is transmitted to the car through the A and C pillars which will already have to be strong enough to support the weight of the car on its roof.

However, it would quite easy to strike the glass with the free end of a rail while lining up the other end which could have caused the start of a stress fracture. You can also imagine a spanner or other tool carelessly dropped on to the glass could do the same thing. When I installed mine, I put a towel down on the roof to protect it.

The fiddly trim pieces which slide over the fixing brackets are for decorative purposes only and I would be surprised if they could transmit enough force to knock the skin off the proverbial rice pudding.

Whether the dealer will own up is another matter. Replacing the roof is a big job - the part alone is £1440 + VAT so I doubt there's much change from £2000. Gulp.

When did they revise the panoramic roof design?

(19-03-2012 09:12am)mark_n Wrote:  If the roof rails are correctly installed, they shouldn't put any stress on the glass roof, assuming of course you have not overloaded them. All load is carried by 2 bolts at each corner which I expect is transmitted to the car through the A and C pillars which will already have to be strong enough to support the weight of the car on its roof.

However, it would quite easy to strike the glass with the free end of a rail while lining up the other end which could have caused the start of a stress fracture. You can also imagine a spanner or other tool carelessly dropped on to the glass could do the same thing. When I installed mine, I put a towel down on the roof to protect it.

The fiddly trim pieces which slide over the fixing brackets are for decorative purposes only and I would be surprised if they could transmit enough force to knock the skin off the proverbial rice pudding.

Whether the dealer will own up is another matter. Replacing the roof is a big job - the part alone is £1440 + VAT so I doubt there's much change from £2000. Gulp.

I think in my case the only reason could be - faulty installation procedure, perhaps something went wrong (e.g. strike with the free end and/or tool drop). But I'm not sure about it since wasn't there, though now think it would be better to do it by myself, indeed.

Btw, could you describe roof rails installation process? Particularly, if any "extra" fitting is necessary once the A pillar side is installed firmly? What is the locking mechanism of the roof rails? You see, after some more thinking and looking at the picture I've noticed rubber padding suspiciously jammed right at the fracture core, so I was suspecting whether any "extra" fitting tool was utilized in order to install it at C pillar side.

Anyway, I had thorough discussion with dealer today. They have made several photos and promised to follow up shortly (few days) with conclusions and expected roof delivery/installation date. Even though I was trying to clarify whether re-work is covered by warranty dealer declined to provide any further justification. I should wait now.

Each rail attaches to fixing brackets at each end using two screws (8 in all) and each bracket is bolted to the car roof with 2 nuts at each end on to bolts concealed under the removable plastic covers. The brackets are installed and aligned using plastic setting guides which are removed after use. Do it properly, and the holes in the rails line up with the holes in the brackets perfectly. There is also a specific screw tightening sequence from front to back. The first screw sets the front-back position so the the others do not apply static lateral stress to the bolts in the roof. It all works fine.

The problem is much more the replacement plastic covers which do not have the same level of support and do not locate very precisely. They have a rubber seal to match the originals and the rears a springey sponge block underneath which allows some flex when the rail presses down on them.

Then there are the plastic covers which slide under the rails into the ends to cover the fixing brackets. The front ones are OK but the back ones are difficult and depend on getting the height of the rail above the roof right. Overall, the metal parts are fine, the plastic parts much less so. Once fitted, I cannot see how the rails can be removed without damaging these plastic parts and they are not available separately from the rails.

I can't see though that any of this should stress the glass.

---

Looking at the picture again, one of the problems with the replacement covers is that they can be pressed in too far - the originals use the bolts to set their position and height and this is not possible when the brackets are installed. If they are pressed in too far, it's difficult to bring them back up and it looks to me like they may have used a screwdriver to do it and damaged the glass.

(20-03-2012 06:59am)mark_n Wrote:  Each rail attaches to fixing brackets at each end using two screws (8 in all) and each bracket is bolted to the car roof with 2 nuts at each end on to bolts concealed under the removable plastic covers. The brackets are installed and aligned using plastic setting guides which are removed after use. Do it properly, and the holes in the rails line up with the holes in the brackets perfectly. There is also a specific screw tightening sequence from front to back. The first screw sets the front-back position so the the others do not apply static lateral stress to the bolts in the roof. It all works fine.

The problem is much more the replacement plastic covers which do not have the same level of support and do not locate very precisely. They have a rubber seal to match the originals and the rears a springey sponge block underneath which allows some flex when the rail presses down on them.

Then there are the plastic covers which slide under the rails into the ends to cover the fixing brackets. The front ones are OK but the back ones are difficult and depend on getting the height of the rail above the roof right. Overall, the metal parts are fine, the plastic parts much less so. Once fitted, I cannot see how the rails can be removed without damaging these plastic parts and they are not available separately from the rails.

I can't see though that any of this should stress the glass.

---

Looking at the picture again, one of the problems with the replacement covers is that they can be pressed in too far - the originals use the bolts to set their position and height and this is not possible when the brackets are installed. If they are pressed in too far, it's difficult to bring them back up and it looks to me like they may have used a screwdriver to do it and damaged the glass.

Thanks a lot for the details, Mark.

Well, I'll see hopefully soon enough what caused that issue.