+- babyRR.com - The Range Rover Evoque Forum (https://babyrr.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Range Rover Evoque Discussions (/Forum-Range-Rover-Evoque-Discussions)
+--- Forum: Technical (/Forum-Technical)
+--- Thread: Mis-fuelled my Diesel (/Thread-Mis-fuelled-my-Diesel)
Mis-fuelled my Diesel - gups4u - 07-04-2012 04:39pm
Hi All,
Urgent help needed, on 07/03/12 I purchased my Range Rover Evoque TD4 pure from a local dealer in Australia. At the time of collection was I was told that the vehicle was fitted with a mis-fuelling device and as a result it would be ‘impossible for fill the car with the wrong type of fuel’.
Yesterday 04/04/12 during a routine fill up at the service station this mis-fuelling device component failed. The car has only done 1300km and is brand new still under a month old.
How can this be possible, does the mis fueling device have an inherent fault, the car is awaiting diagnostics but after mis-fueling has been driven <500 meters.
Can I claim under warranty as the part failed? Does the device work on/in Australian petrol/service stations?
Please help and the insurance company have advised they will not assist. At present I am very stressed about the whole situation without a car and financially worried.
Gurpreet
Australia
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - XFullFatTim - 07-04-2012 05:09pm
Gups4u, firstly welcome to the forums, second sorry to read of your misfortune.
I think you need to get an specialist engineer to look at the system. Even though your dealer states the car has a misfuel device you would need to check that for the Australian market one is actually fitted as standard (you can check in the boot of your car as you should have a very strange looking piece of yellow plastic that is the misfuel detector reset tool - no tool then no mis-fuel device.)
It is possible to get the tank and the entire fuelling system drained and cleaned in the UK but most insurers will not pay out on claims for misfuelling - there are some that do though. Here the AA and RAC both have specialist mis-fuelling technicians now as it is so common here. The reason LR will insist on a whole new engine and fuelling system is that the benzine in gasoline can dissolve the seals in the fuel system and they cannot offer any warranty on an engine that has been mis-fueled - even if it has not been driven but has been started up, they will insist on a replacement engine. I would recommend that if you are a member of a motoring organisation like our AA (I'm sure Australia has a similar organisation) you should get advice from them too.
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - toothfairy - 07-04-2012 05:52pm
Gups4u you have my sympathy, I've got a friend who's done this twice (petrol into diesel car) and the reason why I'm a bit twitched about my first diesel engine.
I asked how this system worked on my LR experience day and the instructor demonstrated it to me. He explained that the unleaded petrol nozzle will push further in and this causes a little yellow plastic flap thingy to spring up and almost block the pipe to the tank. This causes the petrol/petrol fumes to back-flow and fools the pump into thinking the tank is full and it clicks off. It will allow a bit of petrol in the tank but you then dilute by filling it up to the brim with diesel. The plastic tool which is in the boot has to be inserted into the pipe to push the plastic flap thingy back down so that the diesel pump can be used. Sorry about the my non-tech explanation but after he explained how it worked I felt a bit more reassured, but I suppose you still have to push the nozzle in far enough to activate the system.
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - Donny Dog - 07-04-2012 06:12pm
(07-04-2012 04:39pm)gups4u Wrote: Hi All,
Urgent help needed, on 07/03/12 I purchased my Range Rover Evoque TD4 pure from a local dealer in Australia. At the time of collection was I was told that the vehicle was fitted with a mis-fuelling device and as a result it would be ‘impossible for fill the car with the wrong type of fuel’.
Yesterday 04/04/12 during a routine fill up at the service station this mis-fuelling device component failed. The car has only done 1300km and is brand new still under a month old.
How can this be possible, does the mis fueling device have an inherent fault, the car is awaiting diagnostics but after mis-fueling has been driven <500 meters.
Can I claim under warranty as the part failed? Does the device work on/in Australian petrol/service stations?
Please help and the insurance company have advised they will not assist. At present I am very stressed about the whole situation without a car and financially worried.
Gurpreet
Australia
I am really sorry to hear of your plight. Sadly, it would be foolish to suggest that this is not bad or give you false encouragement. Crucially, though, you didn't say how much of the wrong fuel you had put into the tank before you realised. If you have put petrol in a diesel tank, it is commonly held (including by the AA) that you can get away with a certain percentage particularly if there was a reasonable amount of diesel in the tank in the first place, and then you made sure (having spotted the error and stopped quickly) that you then fill up with diesel. Amazingly, the AA quote a figure of as much as 5 litres for a modern common rail engine (like an Evoque) and supposedly 10 litres for a lower pressure injection engine. (These seem very high to me, and I don't know how much evidence it is based on, and clearly there is no guarantee). However, the point is that it is not 'curtains' if you put a small amount in. However, if you inadvertently fill the majority of the tank with petrol, then you can't even afford to switch the ignition on, as it energises the fuel pump immediately, let alone start the engine, so, unfortunately, even 500m would be too much, and there is then a serious risk of the damage suggested by Tim.
The misfuelling device closes a flap in your fuel filler neck. If it successfully closed as a result of offering the wrong nozzle into it, the fuel would back up immediately and should stop the pump, and not much fuel, if any, would get into the tank. Although the holes in the neck outside the flap are at the top of the tube rather than the bottom, presumably any surplus fuel would find its way through them to the ground. However, looking at the fuel filler in my car (without the benefit of a nozzle to experiment with) it might be possible to 'beat' the device by releasing fuel with the nozzle only partially entered. I'm sorry that is not very encouraging.
If Land Rover insist on changing the engine, or (I'd have thought more likely - but still very expensive - replacing prone components such as seals and the high pressure pump) and the cost was prohibitive, you could, as the least worst option just have the fuel tank drained and soldier on without an engine warranty, keeping your money in your pocket to pay for any repairs that become necessary in due course if they do. Land Rover are bound to take the no-expense best route when attending to this - you are the only one who can take the gamble.
Ediit: Sorry there is a bit of duplication here, someone else posted some of what I put while I was writing the reply.
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - LDT - 07-04-2012 06:53pm
Gurpeet - Really sorry to read of your bad luck, it is such an easy thing to do.
We have a small fleet of cars at work, and drivers have done just the same thing on three occasions in the last two year. From what I understand the process of emptying the fuel, if necessary, is quite commonplace as Tim has pointed out, they were without their cars for a day or two at most, but unfortunately I cannot provide an idea of cost as luckily this is covered under our insurance.
Good luck.
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - Mudi1 - 07-04-2012 11:43pm
(07-04-2012 06:53pm)LDT Wrote: Gurpeet - Really sorry to read of your bad luck, it is such an easy thing to do.
We have a small fleet of cars at work, and drivers have done just the same thing on three occasions in the last two year. From what I understand the process of emptying the fuel, if necessary, is quite commonplace as Tim has pointed out, they were without their cars for a day or two at most, but unfortunately I cannot provide an idea of cost as luckily this is covered under our insurance.
Good luck.
I did this once about 10 years ago, not realising at the time and drove approx the same distance before the car 'conked out'. I got away with emptying the fuel tank and refilling with the correct fuel. An option I would try again before I took the matter further.
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - ED209 - 08-04-2012 11:42am
I have did this twice luckily in job cars not my own. Firstly a full tank of diesel in a focus. lUckily i realised before i started the car. Then about 2 litres in an astra from empty before i realised, i just topped up with petrol and no issues.
I think a fact that hasnt been mentioned is unless you push the nozzle right into the neck the device will not work so it is still possible to fill a dieselt with petrol by mistake.
I have sympathy for you but at the end of the day its your fault so i suspect LR will not want to know.
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - FFRR - 08-04-2012 12:27pm
Land Rover's system is actually very behind. BMW and Mini have a system in that the shutter will only open when the correct nozzle is used.
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - gups4u - 08-04-2012 01:45pm
Hi Guys
Thanks for the replies.
I’ve filled the tank will around $80 with the wrong fuel. Drove around 500meters with the car working perfectly. Then went shopping and returned to start the car but this is where the engine wouldn't tick over.
The car was towed (tip if your auto car get immobilised then you have to hold the +ve paddle shift button for more that 12 sec and the car enters recovery mode and goes into neutral to allow it to be towed, pushed) to the Land Rover dealer in Newcastle. They advised me that because of Easter they will not be able to get to work on the car till Tuesday. Not sure is that good as ideally the fuel should be drain asap (I think)
Even though RR say it’s the owner responsibility to use the correct fuel shouldn’t the mis fuelling device kick in and alert the user? When I picked up the car I was advised 'its impossible to fill up with the wrong type of fuel'.
Anyway fingers crossed will find out on Tuesday whether LL AU will decide to fix the issue under warranty. I will be back in the UK next week so not sure whether to make a trip to the HQ to see if they can help?
If there any tips or advice from member let me know as I’m really gutted as only had the car for less than 4 week when this happened.
Any ideas/thoughts.
Gurpreet.
RE: Mystery Storage Compartments - Donny Dog - 08-04-2012 02:01pm
(08-04-2012 01:45pm)gups4u Wrote: Hi Guys
Thanks for the replies.
I’ve filled the tank will around $80 with the wrong fuel. Drove around 500meters with the car working perfectly. Then went shopping and returned to start the car but this is where the engine wouldn't tick over.
The car was towed (tip if your auto car get immobilised then you have to hold the +ve paddle shift button for more that 12 sec and the car enters recovery mode and goes into neutral to allow it to be towed, pushed) to the Land Rover dealer in Newcastle. They advised me that because of Easter they will not be able to get to work on the car till Tuesday. Not sure is that good as ideally the fuel should be drain asap (I think)
Even though RR say it’s the owner responsibility to use the correct fuel shouldn’t the mis fuelling device kick in and alert the user? When I picked up the car I was advised 'its impossible to fill up with the wrong type of fuel'.
Anyway fingers crossed will find out on Tuesday whether LL AU will decide to fix the issue under warranty. I will be back in the UK next week so not sure whether to make a trip to the HQ to see if they can help?
If there any tips or advice from member let me know as I’m really gutted as only had the car for less than 4 week when this happened.
Any ideas/thoughts.
Gurpreet.
I'm guessing that you got 500m on what was left of the diesel within the system. You will, however, have now drawn the petrol-rich mixture right through. Now you've put it into the hands of the dealer, I don't think that they will have any choice but to replace all the parts which may have been affected, including a lot of seals and the high pressure pump. This will require a major strip down and some quite expensive parts, I'm afraid, so brace yourself for several thousand dollars worth of repairs. There is no way they could test the car and give it a clean bill of health so that you can resume the warranty cover - they have no choice but to change every single component that could be affected by petrol ingestion/contamination.
As I said above, the option is for you to ask them not to do this, but just to pump out the tank and re-prime the system with diesel fuel. You would then have no engine warranty, and would have to gamble that the car either worked OK, and, if you had any problems later on, use some of the money you didn't spend now to repair it as necessary. Based on what a few others have said on here, you might get away with it. However, you might also have some trouble getting it back from the dealer as it is clearly in their interests to fix it 'properly', and they will be reluctant to let it go without doing so.
As regards the misfuelling device, it isn't fool-proof (as explained above) and Land Rover couldn't, and certainly wouldn't, make that claim. I'm afraid you have no come-back there.