+- babyRR.com - The Range Rover Evoque Forum (https://babyrr.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Range Rover Evoque Discussions (/Forum-Range-Rover-Evoque-Discussions)
+--- Forum: General (/Forum-General)
+--- Thread: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance (/Thread-Improve-your-Fuel-Economy-and-Performance)
RE: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - FujiSan - 14-10-2012 04:39pm
I was neither patronising nor condescending. If however you feel that way then I apologise.
But even so, there seems to be some general agreement that firstly, these sort of units will always be a compromise over the vehicle manufacturers recommended set up, otherwise, as we both have said, LR would do this themselves. So users should be VERY, VERY wary of exactly what those compromises are likely to be.
And secondly, if these units are so very good, why would their manufacturers always seem to advertise them as being easy to remove when you vehicle goes in for a service, and untraceable in use, and invisible to diagnostics units, and many other such phrases? Surely the vehicle manufacturers would to have a problem with them?
My guess is mainly because the nature of the compromises invalidates the manufacturer's warranty on the vehicle. Whether this may be justified or not is irrelevant, it would be LR's prerogative to invalidate the warranty if they thought it justified.
Uninformed owners of new vehicles need to fully understand what they are doing and what the potential consequences may be, which is why I and others are discussing the 'other' aspects of fitting such devices. It's not all positive, there are negatives as well.
I don't doubt for a second that on balance these units will do what they say they will do (except for over inflated MPG claims) my issue is how they do it, and the nature of the compromises that are made.
RE: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - rhysadams - 14-10-2012 05:36pm
I've had one of these tuning boxes on 2 x VW Golf 2.0 GT TDi 140's for the last 12 months, both have been in (with the box fitted) to our local VW Dealership for servicing and warranty work.
One tech asked if it had made a difference to the fuel and I told him yes. The cars on a long run get 700 miles on a tank. Whilst the computer is telling us we are getting 67mpg, it is more like 62mpg. But is still a big improvement. This can be seen in the mile range on each tank.
Performance wise, it makes a huge difference. You notice it more around town, being able to do 30mph in fifth gear, and 40mph in 6th gear. Before it had to be in the gear below.
I am tempted to get one for the Evoque, best I have achieved on a long run from my SD4 is 44mpg back from Heathrow on Monday. For the sake of £250, I'd take the investment I think.
PS. No difference to the insurance either.
RE: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - XFullFatTim - 14-10-2012 06:16pm
What happens when your Land Rover product goes in to the service bay is that the engine logs in the black box are downloaded and analysed (same for most cars these days). What is recorded are the times that the engine has been operating outside the designed operational parameters, having the "chip" or remap connected up or not is immaterial, the technicans CAN tell from the stored data that the car has not operated as intended. They will do nothing about it EXCEPT it will be noted on the vehicle'a electronic service records that it appears that the vehicle is not operating within the designed limits. If, during the warranty period, you make a claim for mechanical / engine failure or problems then the claims department will examine the service records very very closely before deciding whether or not to pay out - should they find any reason the suspect that the engine has regularly operated outwith any of the design parameters they will decline the claim and tell you that they suspect you have been using the car outwith it's designed operating parameters. So you may be lucky or you may not.
One of the very big dealerships nearly lost it's Land Rover Franchise a few years back as they were fitting engine tuning boxes and remaps as a "standard" extra. A lot of RRSport owners in the early days were surprised that cars supplied by this huge chain were performing so much better than claimed, LR started to get claims for failed turbos and cats within the warranty period and that was when it came to light. LR put 2+2 together and insisted on in house engineers examine cars and the remaps and warranties were then deemed to be invalid, leaving many upset customers of that chain.
RE: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - IvorRedOne - 14-10-2012 06:26pm
(14-10-2012 06:16pm)XFullFatTim Wrote: If, during the warranty period, you make a claim for mechanical / engine failure or problems then the claims department will examine the service records very very closely before deciding whether or not to pay out - should they find any reason the suspect that the engine has regularly operated outwith any of the design parameters they will decline the claim and tell you that they suspect you have been using the car outwith it's designed operating parameters. So you may be lucky or you may not.Sorry, but you can suspect all day long but without evidence you dont have any legal basis to void the warranty.
customers of that chain.
RE: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - THEMACS - 14-10-2012 06:48pm
(14-10-2012 06:26pm)IvorRedOne Wrote: Sorry, but you can suspect all day long but without evidence you dont have any legal basis to void the warranty.
Well if you are happy to take the chance on your brand new car for the sake of a few quids worth of diesel then good luck to you and I sincerely hope you don't come a cropper! You can't say you haven't been told about the risks.
And it invalidates your insurance if you DON'T advise your insurance company.
RE: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - FujiSan - 14-10-2012 07:13pm
There is a lot to be misunderstood with this sort of 'chipping' upgrade. Yes, it is entirely likely that by upping the engine power output in this way you may find yourself in 5th when you would have been in 4th, or 6th when you would have been in 5th, but in an awful lot of situations, you will be in the same gear you would have been anyway. For example on a motorway cruise you would have been in 6th anyway so the average economy improvement is minimal.
Some of these 'upgrades' may well give an increase in power output, but I assure you, they could also damage your engine. Most modern diesels closely monitor things like air density and temperature and will trigger the engine error or similar warning light if the ECU detects a completely implausible set of measurements.
So beware of any so-called upgrade boxes with either a switch on them or potentiometer, normally described as being to alter the mapping, or such like, particularly if they also refer to making this adjustment to avoid engine malfunction lights, or the engine dropping into limp home mode.
They are not altering the mapping, it is a simple resistance change designed to stop the ECU Registering an error in the operational parameters of the engine. I.E stopping the ECU warning you it thinks something is amiss.
Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - ceebee - 14-10-2012 08:23pm
There are some strong feelings and some very good points in this thread both for and against these mods.
In my particular case, I factored in the running costs etc prior to purchasing the Evoque to check affordability. Looking back I suppose I trusted that the LR MPG figures would be near enough to their claims, but I didn't anticipate them being so far off.
However, as the miles started to pass I assumed that the engine would loosen up over time (from the 32 MPG i was getting from new) After 11,000 miles I added the bluespark unit as the MPG had only increased to approx 38 MPG.
I am now going to give mine a further 1000 miles without the unit to see what the "natural" MPG is following the first service. (unfortunately, I have not had a chance to pick up my receipt for the service, so I am unsure if any software upgrades etc were applied)
RE: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - stodman - 14-10-2012 08:25pm
The reason I purchased mine was purely for performance reasons, any mpg increase is a bonus. So why didn't I just pay for the sd4? Well why pay a grand when you can either get a remap or a tuning box to do the job for you.
So here is the question what is the mechanical difference between the td4 and sd4 engines?
Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - EpicEvo - 14-10-2012 08:37pm
I used to do remapping myself and got out as I felt it was a dieing trade. Company's have started to secure there ECU 's so some maps can't be done anymore.
Although the sound of better performance and fuel consumption sounds like a no brainer. Just wait till you take it in for a service one day and they say you need a new DPF filter as you will be looking at thousands!!
And a map or tuning box will put massive stress on all your exhaust filters and also turbo. Over all in the long run... No something ill be going for myself
RE: Improve your Fuel Economy and Performance - stodman - 14-10-2012 08:51pm
(14-10-2012 08:37pm)EpicEvo Wrote: I used to do remapping myself and got out as I felt it was a dieing trade. Company's have started to secure there ECU 's so some maps can't be done anymore.Suppose everyone has their own opinion, bulletin boards would be boring if anyone agreed. I still have the same question in relation to td4 vs sd4 suspect the cat, dpf etc are exactly the same......
Although the sound of better performance and fuel consumption sounds like a no brainer. Just wait till you take it in for a service one day and they say you need a new DPF filter as you will be looking at thousands!!
And a map or tuning box will put massive stress on all your exhaust filters and also turbo. Over all in the long run... No something ill be going for myself