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+--- Thread: 2015 Performance upgrades (/Thread-2015-Performance-upgrades)
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RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - RoverPerformance - 06-11-2015 11:47pm
(06-11-2015 11:24am)PhilSkill Wrote: Are you going to upgrade the Drivetrain too? otherwise you might find you wear that out rather quick putting 400hp through it!
I'm not going to upgrade the drive train. I've researched and spoken to several performance shops that work on the Ford Ecoboost 2.0 engine, they build Ford Focus and Fusion/Mondeo performance kits that produce 400hp/380 ft/lbs of torque reliable daily drivers. The Ford transmission that is in these cars are the Ford 6F automatic transmission and are rated at 280 ft/lbs of torque, and the tuning/performance shops are not doing any drive train reinforcements. The transmission in the 6 speed Evoque is the Aisin AWF21 which is rated at 325 ft/lbs of torque. The only thing I'm going to add to the transmission is a better transmission fluid cooler. That's the only thing the other shops are doing when they build a 400hp car.
The Ecoboost 2.0 engine is said by some to be the strongest build OEM engine block they have ever seen. It can easily be a 400hp reliable daily driver.
RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - Clip - 09-11-2015 10:44am
(06-11-2015 11:47pm)RoverPerformance Wrote: The transmission in the 6 speed Evoque is the Aisin AWF21 which is rated at 325 ft/lbs of torque. The only thing I'm going to add to the transmission is a better transmission fluid cooler. That's the only thing the other shops are doing when they build a 400hp car.I don't know for sure re RR, but most manufactures (e.g. VAG) protect transmission damage caused by excessive torque via a separate control module. So doesn't really matter what torque the engine can produce, the computer will make sure that it restricts it given particular conditions to protect the trans. One of the reasons why APR and other tuning houses offer specific transmission remapping.
RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - BeansEV - 10-11-2015 12:09am
I would be interested to see your finished product in pictures for fit and finish and of course dyno results. I am working on a few things with some of the American companies that tune on the ford vehicles to see if they would be interested in getting in a new market . The engine set up should be similar enough to adapt some of the trickery to the RR Ev . atleast im hoping .
RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - RoverPerformance - 10-11-2015 12:20am
(09-11-2015 10:44am)Clip Wrote: I don't know for sure re RR, but most manufactures (e.g. VAG) protect transmission damage caused by excessive torque via a separate control module. So doesn't really matter what torque the engine can produce, the computer will make sure that it restricts it given particular conditions to protect the trans. One of the reasons why APR and other tuning houses offer specific transmission remapping.
I've never heard of a transmission computer controlling the ECU to limit the torque, but that said, it doesn't mean you are wrong. We most tuners are doing to the transmission computer is changing the shift points and other shifting properties. I will have to look into what you said. Thanks for the heads up.
(10-11-2015 12:20am)RoverPerformance Wrote: I've never heard of a transmission computer controlling the ECU to limit the torque, but that said, it doesn't mean you are wrong. We most tuners are doing to the transmission computer is changing the shift points and other shifting properties. I will have to look into what you said. Thanks for the heads up.
I'm hoping to get some feedback from you and others on a reasonable price point for a nice fit and finish plug and play kit. What price range sounds reasonable for a 400hp (at the crank/flywheel) turbo kit that includes everything (including software and new maps)?
RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - Steve D - 10-11-2015 05:58am
Mostly we have diesel models over here - I think there's only about 4 petrol Evoques registered in the UK isn't there?
RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - XFullFatTim - 10-11-2015 07:56am
We do have some "tuners" here in the UK who specialise in performance upgrades, one of them is a forum sponsor BAS. Pete works on sending you an exchange ECU IIRC, his remaps are bespoke for Evoques but I don't know if he has developed one for the petrol engined versions as as Steve D says the petrol version is not too common here and diesels out sell them about 1000/1!
RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - Clip - 10-11-2015 08:43am
(10-11-2015 12:20am)RoverPerformance Wrote: I've never heard of a transmission computer controlling the ECU to limit the torque, but that said, it doesn't mean you are wrong. We most tuners are doing to the transmission computer is changing the shift points and other shifting properties. I will have to look into what you said. Thanks for the heads upMy apologies, that's probably overly simplistic and not entirely accurate. But the good tuners that offer transmission tuning do a lot more than just altering shift points. This is a snippet from an older article explains a little about VAG DSG's:
The limiting factor of the box is not the gears or clutch packs but the programming of TCM (transmission control
module). The DSG TCM is programmed such that, if the input shaft sees more than a certain amount of torque (350 Nm)
it tells the ECU to dial down on the engine power.... this statement comes from an article written in ATZ/MZT Engineering magazine (from Germany) by Dr. Frank Günter, Director of VW Program Management
RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - PhilSkill - 10-11-2015 12:54pm
Hmmm, and what is the purpose for the TCM to request less torque... it wont be to make the car slower, the limiting factor will become the clutch and the gears if you take away the protections to stop them being damaged!
I'm not trying to be negative on increasing the power, of course you can tune these up, and if you've got the know how to increase the power you'll have the know how to fix any problems you may experience and are prepared to accept that, but engineering tolerance these days are so good that if they limit the box at 350Nm of torque, there will be a "safe" margin above of course, but these days it wont be that large, before additional wear and damage will start to occur.
I know Pete mentioned he was wary to increase the Evoque (Diesel) power beyond 240hp for risk to the drivetrain, haldex diff etc, that is without additional cooling of course and the Diesel will produce more peak torque. He will also be playing safe for a Commercial product, but once you push those safe limits, it's up to you.
Certainly be interesting how you get on!
RE: 2015 Performance upgrades - Clip - 11-11-2015 08:23am
Yep, agree with what your saying. Problem with drivetrains is more to do with torque than horsepower. But given that hp is a result of torque and rpm, with diesels, we're stuck with big increases in torque to gain a few more hp as we don't have the revs, which is not always good as it's the torque that can do the damage. Petrol engines though can get greater hp increases without having to push the torque figures so high, given that petrol engines have more rpm to play with.