A Tale of an Orange Light , Engine Dead - Does it make sense?

Hello All ,

I Am a pretty new Range Rover Owner , less then a month ,
I Found an 2012 Pure Evoque , Low KM (55k) , Tires and the rest were in good shape , The Place that had it checked up (i chose it) deemed car all ok (the errors were not enough oil and higher oil burn - which they said is normal to turbo engines) , a few dings on the cover - but nothing too serious.

I Chose to go for it , Since the Car had a maintenance coming , i chose to go with the flow and do it ,

They changed Break pads and Breaks on the rear , Plugs and a few filters , Total of a Big Maintenance (Around 1800 USD)

They said they saw some mis-fire on the engine , but they said plugs should fix it , nothing too major ,

A Week after , Orange Light for the Engine , Check Engine - Went back to the Official Dealer - They said they will check it out , probably has to do with misfire

Engine Opened ,

At first - they said Looks like one of the Injectors is dead , a thing which might make sense since i had High Fuel consumption (1/5 1/6) , They also said there is an error with one of the piston rings ,
Now they are saying the piston itself is broken and we need to change it ,
A few minutes ago they told me they might need to Change an ENGINE.

Now , i am WTF
Can somebody please shed some light and tell me if it makes sense ?


Pictures enclosed :


Thanks!

Do you have any Sale of goods laws, surely if it's less than a month of ownership then you should be able to request your money back!

Chances are it's either been over-boosted, or maybe a ring failure created a hot spot and/or it's Seized to crack a piston like that.

It really does need a new engine to be sure no other damage has been caused now anyway

Hi , Its a 2nd Hand car - I Don;t think that such law exist here ,
I Went and talked with the Center that tested the car and tomorrow they will try and see if its possible to cover it by insurance (if it is their fault) ,
I Am asking - If a cylinder such as this was broken , Wouldn't i feel it by driving ? Wouldn't the Engine be rocky as hell ?

In the Garage - they told me they do not see that the engine was opened ( but i do not know how its possible to know if you replace a whole set every engine opened) .

All of this happen after i did a maintenance round (Again - Authorized dealership) ,

Does it make sense to you ? When they opened the engine they also told me that 3 Suction valves are also burnt out ,
So many Problems in the Engine and only got Misfire ? Does it make sense ?
I Highly suspect the garage f'ed up somewhere...And trying to see if it makes sense ?

It's possible all you would have noticed was a mis-fire, the pistons cracked but not yet broken, you'd be down on power as the rings are damaged, and that would explain the higher oil burn and hence the additional Fuel Consumption, but as a new owner would you notice the power? The trouble is every mile would have been causing further damage until something failed that was fatal.

I'm not surprised valves are now burnt out and maybe even if the Cylinder liners are damaged or the rods are and pins are bent or damaged.

You must have some rights as a consumer, it is difficult as a 2nd hand car, but if sold by a dealer\trader then they must have to take some responsibility, it was clearly damaged when you bought it if your report said higher Oil Burn.

Whoever had it originally obviously knew something was wrong and got rid of it. You were sold a duf!

Hey ,
Thanks for the Quick and Honest reply ,
I Have two things that come to mind :

1. The testing Center (That tested the vehicle) should have noticed that failure , they did a compression test - but i don't even understand how to read it , obviously if one cylinder was damaged - the compression test should have gotten it , Why would i pay money for someone to check the engine if the test is incorrect? (It even says the test was done in 250 RPM , while Idle is around 750 in Evoque).

2. I Think the Garage has an incentive to sell me an Engine , Bigger margin no ? Im finding it hard to believe the garage does not want to repair the engine itself (I checked it with an Engine expert that took measurements and said that the Engine and Block is immaculate , The only problem is the Piston and the Piston ring) , As far as i understand one of the Injectors was disfunctional , along side a piston (On that same injection point) , but then again , why would i BUY a car that has a bad engine? this is what the testing center is for (I know either the seller , testing center or the garage is wrong - in some way).

3. Currently i have Talked to the testing center who sent their insurance guy to check the engine (Well , the parts of the engine that is currently in the garage) , I checked with the garage and they said the Engine was not tampered with or overboosted as you suggested , on top all of the vehicle history is under the registered garage dealer (the same garage that treated the vehicle and is now treating it).

This is the situation i am trying to deal with , Thoughts ?
Thanks

(05-07-2016 12:51pm)PhilSkill Wrote:  It's possible all you would have noticed was a mis-fire, the pistons cracked but not yet broken, you'd be down on power as the rings are damaged, and that would explain the higher oil burn and hence the additional Fuel Consumption, but as a new owner would you notice the power? The trouble is every mile would have been causing further damage until something failed that was fatal.

I'm not surprised valves are now burnt out and maybe even if the Cylinder liners are damaged or the rods are and pins are bent or damaged.

You must have some rights as a consumer, it is difficult as a 2nd hand car, but if sold by a dealer\trader then they must have to take some responsibility, it was clearly damaged when you bought it if your report said higher Oil Burn.

Whoever had it originally obviously knew something was wrong and got rid of it. You were sold a duf!

The Compression test should have shown this failure, of course it may not have been as bad when they tested it though. A compression test should read pressure, so you should have 4 readings all about the same, 250rpm will be because it was turned over using the starter motor not actually run. You need to read any small print, I bet a testing centre will dissolve any liability to decisions to purchase based on their results, but maybe not.

The Garage will be concerned if they just put a new Piston in, that they spend all the time reassembling it, only for it to go wrong again because something less detectable is also wrong and it may go bang in a few thousand miles after reassembly! Who knows what went on in that engine to get it into that state.

To me though that's all irrelevant, the dealer should take responsible for this, surely 2nd hand vehicles from traders have some warranty or customer care? Have they said this is your responsibility? try to come to a deal for a refund or replacement vehicle, certainly don't pay them anything until you come to an agreement.

Hey
Highly doubt the dealership will take it back if it passed the test in a center i chose ,

Do you have any meaning from reading this test ?

Thanks

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Forgot to attach test
Sorry

(05-07-2016 08:06pm)m0teki Wrote:  Hey
Highly doubt the dealership will take it back if it passed the test in a center i chose ,

Do you have any meaning from reading this test ?

Thanks

To me, Cylinder 4 (assuming in numerical order) looks a little lower and doesn't rise as quite as well, just over 5% difference rising to 7% overall. I don't know what the compression should actually be i'm afraid and there are no units shown. Problem may only have just been starting, but I think you could argue it's not hideous but not perfect with that 5-7% difference and it's just gone downhill from there.

Why did you have a compression test done...? and did they say that it was good before you purchased, if you could not understand it yourself?

I still think you've been sold a duf, and in such a short time to have this happen then a trader must take some if not all responsibility. If the Seller is giving you a cold shoulder, i'd start getting some advice on your rights. But up to you how you proceed.

This must be very stressful for you!

Hey ,
Cylinder 3 is the problematic one (In accordance to The injector as well)

I Have engaged LR Britain see if they can help (As the Garage says there is no way to replace the Piston / ring - We have checked the Engine body and all is fine! ).

I Have checked the Service Manual and the manual suggests fixing the piston (assuming the piston house is undamaged) - meaning the Garage is probably lying (Although this is the certified Garage...) , I am also assuming there are 2 errors :

1. The Test was done incorrectly (By the testing center).
2. The garage did something wrong when pulling the piston out.
3. Everyone is blaming everyone (And i am in the middle..)

I am staring to lawyer up ... So it seems ,
Its sad that this is the way garage handles this situation , especially they are the certified garage in here (Only 3 in here).