FairFuel Campaign..

ED209, his post is still there

It's probably best for him to speak for himself but I'm constantly disappointed when people tar normal law abiding citizens as planet wreckers because they choose, or need to, drive a car.

Carbon emissions from all road going transport accounts for around 10% of all emissions and whilst I take the point that some people can be lazy and take the car when not required, that is a personal choice of convenience or worst still laziness.... It certainly isnt through a desire to pollute.

I walk, I cycle , I recycle ( and the recycling is mainly to appease my wife) . The reason I say the last part is that I do think its very important to use stuff again but is me sticking all my bottles, papers, cans and other items in the recycling really having an effect on the big picture?? I'm not convinced.

Anyhoo rant over ...... why dont we just send a delegation to parliament and tell them to charge what they want for everything as we all have a moral duty to make things better in life and well just accept it because we've nothing better to do with our money?? NO? nah didnt think so ;o)

Across the UK, we are now recycling on average about 25% of our rubbish - much more than in recent years, but still behind many European countries.

Councils trying to keep up with European and UK government recycling targets have been introducing all sorts of different measures to encourage us to recycle more.

In fact, recycling increasingly seems to be becoming a compulsory, rather than voluntary, activity.
Some councils have fined people for putting the wrong rubbish in recycling bags, reduced rubbish collections to fortnightly, and put microchips on bins ahead of possible "pay as you throw" regimes.

Many people welcome this move towards recycling because it is good for the environment.

But among some, it is also stirring uneasiness, as they do not know where their recycling is going and what happens to it in the recycling process. If recycling is compulsory, people at least want to know what is happening to their rubbish..

The price of oil in the UK has nothing to do with reducing imports from Iran. Our government and the French have been at the forefront of trade embargoes against Iran and have not imported any Iranian oil for a year. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for our Japanese, Korean, American, German and Italian friends who continue to flout the trade embargo and import Iranian oil or Inia and China who have never reduced their imports from Iran.
What has increased the oil price is that the western Gulf states have not increased output to meet increased demand due to an exceptionally cold winter in Central Europe and the awful value of the pound and the Euro. Presently Iran is also holding a very big military exercise in the Strait of Hormuz and have been stopping shipping randomly, arresting it and detaining ships in International waters. Few tanker operators want the ships passing through the Strait under threat of having their ship's detained indefinitely so are not sending them there in the first place.

(22-02-2012 04:56pm)XFullFatTim Wrote:  The price of oil in the UK has nothing to do with reducing imports from Iran. Our government and the French have been at the forefront of trade embargoes against Iran and have not imported any Iranian oil for a year. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for our Japanese, Korean, American, German and Italian friends who continue to flout the trade embargo and import Iranian oil or Inia and China who have never reduced their imports from Iran.
What has increased the oil price is that the western Gulf states have not increased output to meet increased demand due to an exceptionally cold winter in Central Europe and the awful value of the pound and the Euro. Presently Iran is also holding a very big military exercise in the Strait of Hormuz and have been stopping shipping randomly, arresting it and detaining ships in International waters. Few tanker operators want the ships passing through the Strait under threat of having their ship's detained indefinitely so are not sending them there in the first place.

The fact we don't impiort their oil is irrelevant, becasue of their actions there has been an effect on the WORLD price of oil in an Upward manner!! So by virtue of what they are doing, it IS Affecting OUR fuel prices!!

Lets be serious here. The high prices for fuel across Europe are not due to Iran or limited supply or w/e else people seem to think. It's the taxes that are killing us, and our own governments are directly to blame for high fuel prices. In my country for every 1 euro you pay for fuel about 60 cents are taxes, in some countries it might be more or less but I'd say 60-65 cents out of each euro are taxes on average across the EU. Fuel could be sold for a profit by oil companies at just a bit more than 1/3 of the price.
And another thing is that automobiles are definitely not the biggest poluters, yet they are the most heavily taxed. Why? Because it's easy to tax fuel and it's easy to collect said taxes making it a wonderful source of constant revenue for our ever expanding bureaucracy.

(22-02-2012 03:28pm)ED209 Wrote:  I take it dandavis1 deleted his post??

My view is that all this global warming stuff is simply made up tripe in order for governments to have an excuse to increase taxes. The earths warming just a natural cycle.

+1

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(22-02-2012 03:40pm)Fireysam Wrote:  ED209, his post is still there

It's probably best for him to speak for himself but I'm constantly disappointed when people tar normal law abiding citizens as planet wreckers because they choose, or need to, drive a car.

Carbon emissions from all road going transport accounts for around 10% of all emissions and whilst I take the point that some people can be lazy and take the car when not required, that is a personal choice of convenience or worst still laziness.... It certainly isnt through a desire to pollute.

I walk, I cycle , I recycle ( and the recycling is mainly to appease my wife) . The reason I say the last part is that I do think its very important to use stuff again but is me sticking all my bottles, papers, cans and other items in the recycling really having an effect on the big picture?? I'm not convinced.

Anyhoo rant over ...... why dont we just send a delegation to parliament and tell them to charge what they want for everything as we all have a moral duty to make things better in life and well just accept it because we've nothing better to do with our money?? NO? nah didnt think so ;o)

+1....could not agree mpre....

(22-02-2012 03:40pm)Fireysam Wrote:  I'm constantly disappointed when people tar normal law abiding citizens as planet wreckers because they choose, or need to, drive a car.

Gobal warming, CO2 etc etc isn't the argument here really.

My point is that reducing tax on fuel is just acting as a buffer to the inevitable - whatever happens, fuel will increase in price because oil will not last forever.

Current alternatives aren't really viable - even fuel cells. But as long as oil-based fuels are affordable, no-one will seriously consider an alternative nor direct any huge sums of cash to R&D.

I drive a lot and I've just bought a not-particularly-frugal car, but I don't support the idea of reducing tax on fuel as a solution to rising oil prices.

(22-02-2012 05:59pm)dandavis1 Wrote:  Gobal warming, CO2 etc etc isn't the argument here really.

My point is that reducing tax on fuel is just acting as a buffer to the inevitable - whatever happens, fuel will increase in price because oil will not last forever.

Current alternatives aren't really viable - even fuel cells. But as long as oil-based fuels are affordable, no-one will seriously consider an alternative nor direct any huge sums of cash to R&D.

I drive a lot and I've just bought a not-particularly-frugal car, but I don't support the idea of reducing tax on fuel as a solution to rising oil prices.

Dan, you've kind of answered your own point....at the moment the alternatives aren't yet viable and as much as I'd love to lend a hand in finding a solution to the problem...my knowledge regarding the science of alternative fuel isnt exactly extensive....the bottom line is that it isn't the man in the streets job to find the alternative...that is the job of the fuel companies, car companies and governments.

However, just because there isnt a viable alternative at the moment, that shouldn't be the green light to disproportionately tax the current fuel we use.

If for example, the same car you have was available tomorrow in a totally clean version with the same range, same performance and similar price ...lets face it...I think most people would switch....So ten years down the line we all have no guilt trip about the environment, zero car tax and very small fuel bills....Do you seriously think that the government wouldnt find a way to replace the money they would lose? In short, this isnt about the goverment wanting us all to sleep better at night knowing were doing our bit....its about money.....Im all for clean fuel, Im all for lower emissions and recycling...but Im also all for not being taken for a mug every time I need to fill up

Alternative fuel ...a big yes.....getting battered every day until its here? Im afraid its a big thumbs down from me

I'm not happy with Dan Davis after he incorrectly criticised me on another post recently, however, sadly I am kinda with him on this one.

Fuel price will increase no matter what we do...unless we stop using our cars...which we won't do! So any kind of demonstration is futile. Supply and demand is the most simple economic principle to understand...so as long as we are prepared to pay the money, they will keep taking it!! I'm no expert, but common sense suggests there will be a tipping point where people will buy less and therefore tax revenue will go down, despite the tax percentage being higher...at this point, the price will go down again, and when it normalises, the price will stay the same for a significant period of time.

Is the amount of tax on fuel too high...maybe, but the government would only need to get the tax off us elsewhere...and I would rather they got it from me when I spend my money than add any more to the 50% they take when I earn it!!

Fuel is a luxury because cars are a luxury. If you need to travel and you can't afford to, then you need to adjust the way you are living!!!

I get stuck in traffic at 7am every morning because everyone is driving to work...why are they driving? Because they can either get a bigger house by living further away from their work, or a better job by working further away from their home! Of course this is very generalist, but it accounts for the majority. Either way, the bigger house is a luxury, and the better job buys luxuries.

When I get to work...the car park is full and there are no spaces...but the car-share car park is empty. So is the free park and ride facility a mile down the road...the work car park is full of people driving round and round hoping for a space to come available because using the park and ride would be a real pain. It drives me nuts when I go to the gym (rarely) to see people trying despreately to get a space in the gym car park...even though 50 yards away there is a sofa shop car park that is always empty...they don't want to get out the car and have to walk 50 yards...but are obviously happy to run 10k on the treadmill!

I can't park when I take my kids to school, because everyone else has driven to take them...some could walk but they don't want to. Some can't walk because they didn't put their child in the nearest school, because there was a better one 4 miles away. When I was a kid, we couldn't afford a car so we bought a house that was on a school bus route....the house was rubbish and the school was rubbish...but it was what we had.

I could rant for ever but I'm not intelligent enough to write well enough to keep people in any way interested...so I will need to bring this to a close now!

This is a Range Rover forum so none of us on here have any place moaning about fuel prices I wouldn't think. My mum loves cars but she has just traded hers in for a Golf that does 70mpg because of fuel prices...my missus used to do a lot of miles so bought a Pug 107 because it did 60mpg, her arguement was that whilst fuel has doubled in price since she started driving, she now has a car that can do double the mileage that her first car could do...so the cost of fuel has stayed the same, she just can't have quite such a nice car.

This country is in financial trouble and people need to wake up to the fact that we have been living in a luxury bubble and we now have to re-adjust.

Apologies that this is not better structured, but it's been a long day and I have cabin fever...so I had to rant!!

By the way, I would be far more interested in getting involved if the campaign was for the fuel duty to be better spent rather than it being reduced.

If the country didn't have to support junkies, alcoholics and general useless lowlife specimans that can't be bothered to go out and work and use the benefit system as a lifestyle rather than a cruch to see them through a hard time then there would be no need to tax anything so highly.